In a Norwegian prison, Anders Breivik waits for five judges to rule whether they believe he was sane or insane when he killed 77 people in Oslo and on island last July.
He says to judge him insane would be sadistic and cruel. For many, that would be reason enough to judge so.
But for the majority of Norwegians, particularly the families and friends of the dead, the final judgement matters little.
After all the torment, it is of scant consequence whether he is held in a prison cell as a criminal or the psychiatric ward of the same prison as a patient. All that really matters to them is that he will never again be free.
Freddy Lie has good reason to never want Breivik back in open society; two of his three daughters were on Utoya.
His eldest, Cathrine (sic), survived but with dreadful injuries. His second child Elisabeth died - shot through the head as he tried to calm her on the phone.
The girls had initially feared Freddy himself had been killed - unable to reach him on the phone they were worried he'd been in Oslo working as a refuse collector when the bomb exploded.
For a few minutes all three enjoyed the elation of survival until Anders Breivik arrived on Utoya and began his killing spree.
Thirteen months later, having sat through all but two days of the trial, Freddy Lie no longer cares what the judges decide. He feels nothing for Breivik and cares little for his motivation.
He simply wants to know that he will never again experience freedom.