The Tory Party Chairman has defended the Chancellor over remarks in which he appeared to suggest state handouts were partly responsible for the lifestyle of child killer Mick Philpott.
Grant Shapps told me this morning that it was Labour's Ed Miliband and Ed Balls who were "out of touch".
Speaking outside the Tory party HQ where he was launching a local election poster, he said: "This debate is raging in the country. For politicians to think they can just step away from it, not be involved in that debate even though everybody is talking about it, is completely out of touch."
But he conceded that the numbers of people with 11 children, who claimed benefits, was small.